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	<title>Comments on: Revising History</title>
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		<title>By: Pineapple</title>
		<link>http://padevat.info/2010/01/15/revising-history/comment-page-1/#comment-323</link>
		<dc:creator>Pineapple</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 22:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://padevat.info/?p=2007#comment-323</guid>
		<description>Interesting quote.   I can&#039;t open the file right now, though.  

I&#039;m reminded that it was Harben who did the &#039;box&#039; test on a map of Cambodia, and realised that a B-52 strike on any area of central Cambodia would inevitably hit  populated areas.  Made worse by the fact that outdated intelligence didn&#039;t  allow for the Khmer Rouge relocating and then concentrating significant chunks of the population within their liberated zones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting quote.   I can&#8217;t open the file right now, though.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m reminded that it was Harben who did the &#8216;box&#8217; test on a map of Cambodia, and realised that a B-52 strike on any area of central Cambodia would inevitably hit  populated areas.  Made worse by the fact that outdated intelligence didn&#8217;t  allow for the Khmer Rouge relocating and then concentrating significant chunks of the population within their liberated zones.</p>
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		<title>By: lb</title>
		<link>http://padevat.info/2010/01/15/revising-history/comment-page-1/#comment-322</link>
		<dc:creator>lb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 16:53:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://padevat.info/?p=2007#comment-322</guid>
		<description>The full document (which covers Harben&#039;s whole career) can be accessed &lt;a href=&quot;http://memory.loc.gov/master/mss/mssmisc/mfdip/2004/2004har01.sgm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; - in SGML format for some reason. Another brief portrait of the doomed regime the Khmer Rouge were fighting against.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The full document (which covers Harben&#8217;s whole career) can be accessed <a href="http://memory.loc.gov/master/mss/mssmisc/mfdip/2004/2004har01.sgm" rel="nofollow">here</a> &#8211; in SGML format for some reason. Another brief portrait of the doomed regime the Khmer Rouge were fighting against.</p>
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		<title>By: lb</title>
		<link>http://padevat.info/2010/01/15/revising-history/comment-page-1/#comment-321</link>
		<dc:creator>lb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 16:47:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://padevat.info/?p=2007#comment-321</guid>
		<description>This reminds me (tangentially) of another interesting document I came across recently, a memoir by William Harben - a political officer in the US Embassy who features briefly in Shawcross&#039;s book &#039;Sideshow&#039;. Apart from a story about Lon Nol issuing a presidential decree arresting anyone who was seen in the markets buying rabbits (as the KR had, according to the government, adopted the tactic of creating &#039;rabbit bombs&#039; which could hop across FANK lines and explode), it also gives away what the other side really thought about Lon Nol:

&quot;A rumor circulated about a possible assassination attempt against the Marshal. I halfheartedly checked it with one of his ministers, who laughed and said, “The enemy would burn alive anybody who touched a hair of the Marshal&#039;s head. He&#039;s the greatest asset they have. Any of the servants in the palace would kill him for 2000 riels. You can wander in there and run into him sunning himself in the garden. The guards won&#039;t stop you.”

I dropped this bit of news in the staff meeting and met with icy stares. The fact was that both we and the enemy were protecting Marshal Lon Nol, and one of us was wrong&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This reminds me (tangentially) of another interesting document I came across recently, a memoir by William Harben &#8211; a political officer in the US Embassy who features briefly in Shawcross&#8217;s book &#8216;Sideshow&#8217;. Apart from a story about Lon Nol issuing a presidential decree arresting anyone who was seen in the markets buying rabbits (as the KR had, according to the government, adopted the tactic of creating &#8216;rabbit bombs&#8217; which could hop across FANK lines and explode), it also gives away what the other side really thought about Lon Nol:</p>
<p>&#8220;A rumor circulated about a possible assassination attempt against the Marshal. I halfheartedly checked it with one of his ministers, who laughed and said, “The enemy would burn alive anybody who touched a hair of the Marshal&#8217;s head. He&#8217;s the greatest asset they have. Any of the servants in the palace would kill him for 2000 riels. You can wander in there and run into him sunning himself in the garden. The guards won&#8217;t stop you.”</p>
<p>I dropped this bit of news in the staff meeting and met with icy stares. The fact was that both we and the enemy were protecting Marshal Lon Nol, and one of us was wrong&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Pineapple</title>
		<link>http://padevat.info/2010/01/15/revising-history/comment-page-1/#comment-320</link>
		<dc:creator>Pineapple</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 13:01:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://padevat.info/?p=2007#comment-320</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s some footage of General Sosthene Fernandez:

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s some footage of General Sosthene Fernandez:</p>
<p><object width="445" height="364"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OulM2X_wXUA&#038;hl=en_GB&#038;fs=1&#038;rel=0&#038;border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OulM2X_wXUA&#038;hl=en_GB&#038;fs=1&#038;rel=0&#038;border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="445" height="364"></embed></object></p>
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		<title>By: Pineapple</title>
		<link>http://padevat.info/2010/01/15/revising-history/comment-page-1/#comment-304</link>
		<dc:creator>Pineapple</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 10:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://padevat.info/?p=2007#comment-304</guid>
		<description>On the subject of the Khmer Krom, Kiernan has noted that many supported the Vietnamese Communists, either in the North or the NLF.  Sieu Heng was one of them, and several of the ICP-oriented Issaraks who went to Hanoi following Geneva were Khmer Krom.  He points to the migration of Khmer Krom into Cambodia, starting  from the early twentieth century but importantly in the 1960s, and the Samlaut outbreak of violence, as being a possible source of radicalism from which the rural rebels drew strength.   Aside from the the flow of leftist town-dwellers into the maquis.  I guess their reputation for robustness comes from southern Vietnamese attempts to make them assimilate into the wider dominant society, protecting their strong sense of cultural identity.  Similarly the hill tribes in Cambodia&#039;s Northeast, militarily resisted an attempt by a state plantation to take their land in 1967.  I believe Sihanouk blamed the Vietnamese for this, threatening to cut off supplies to the border camp complexes, coming from the port at Sihanoukville, unless they halted the rebellion by what he termed &quot;Khmer-Vietminh.&quot;  Of course, with his government&#039;s ruthless smashing of the town-based Communist movement, pushing it underground and into the countryside, he wasn&#039;t fully cognisant by then of the political divide that had been created within the said movement and the struggle among the Communists themselves.   For although some of the weapons used by the rebels will have come from them, it wasn&#039;t the Vietnamese who had stirred the minority peoples of Ratanakiri, and who then resisted the government, but that small group of maquisards who had been there since 1963, lead by Salot Sar.

Unfortunately Tong, being the uncultured fellow that I am, I&#039;ve not read a word of Platonov.  The only Russian literature I&#039;ve read, are a few books from the nineteenth century, including the badly written &lt;em&gt;What is To Be Done?&lt;/em&gt; by Chernyshevsky; and some twentieth century revolutionary-era literature such as Aleksei Tolstoy&#039;s &lt;em&gt;Aelita, or The Decline of Mars&lt;/em&gt;, made into a fantastic Soviet-era silent film directed by &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCdMJtEjpDg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Yakov Protazanov&lt;/a&gt; (witness the creation of a Martian Union of Soviet Socialist Republics!), and proletarian writer Fyodor Gladkov&#039;s &lt;em&gt;Cement&lt;/em&gt;. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the subject of the Khmer Krom, Kiernan has noted that many supported the Vietnamese Communists, either in the North or the NLF.  Sieu Heng was one of them, and several of the ICP-oriented Issaraks who went to Hanoi following Geneva were Khmer Krom.  He points to the migration of Khmer Krom into Cambodia, starting  from the early twentieth century but importantly in the 1960s, and the Samlaut outbreak of violence, as being a possible source of radicalism from which the rural rebels drew strength.   Aside from the the flow of leftist town-dwellers into the maquis.  I guess their reputation for robustness comes from southern Vietnamese attempts to make them assimilate into the wider dominant society, protecting their strong sense of cultural identity.  Similarly the hill tribes in Cambodia&#8217;s Northeast, militarily resisted an attempt by a state plantation to take their land in 1967.  I believe Sihanouk blamed the Vietnamese for this, threatening to cut off supplies to the border camp complexes, coming from the port at Sihanoukville, unless they halted the rebellion by what he termed &#8220;Khmer-Vietminh.&#8221;  Of course, with his government&#8217;s ruthless smashing of the town-based Communist movement, pushing it underground and into the countryside, he wasn&#8217;t fully cognisant by then of the political divide that had been created within the said movement and the struggle among the Communists themselves.   For although some of the weapons used by the rebels will have come from them, it wasn&#8217;t the Vietnamese who had stirred the minority peoples of Ratanakiri, and who then resisted the government, but that small group of maquisards who had been there since 1963, lead by Salot Sar.</p>
<p>Unfortunately Tong, being the uncultured fellow that I am, I&#8217;ve not read a word of Platonov.  The only Russian literature I&#8217;ve read, are a few books from the nineteenth century, including the badly written <em>What is To Be Done?</em> by Chernyshevsky; and some twentieth century revolutionary-era literature such as Aleksei Tolstoy&#8217;s <em>Aelita, or The Decline of Mars</em>, made into a fantastic Soviet-era silent film directed by <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCdMJtEjpDg" rel="nofollow">Yakov Protazanov</a> (witness the creation of a Martian Union of Soviet Socialist Republics!), and proletarian writer Fyodor Gladkov&#8217;s <em>Cement</em>.</p>
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		<title>By: lb</title>
		<link>http://padevat.info/2010/01/15/revising-history/comment-page-1/#comment-302</link>
		<dc:creator>lb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 08:09:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://padevat.info/?p=2007#comment-302</guid>
		<description>Sihanouk did sponsor Cham nationalism to a certain degree, mainly via the rather shadowy figure of Les Kosem (or Kasem), a Cham officer in the Royal army. Kosem was not only part of the army clique responsible for helping supply the Viet Cong with weapons, but was one of the leaders of a Cham &#039;liberation front&#039; which seems to have been  fostered by Sihanouk with the purpose of needling South Vietnam, and indeed everyone else. He was also associated with another &#039;liberation&#039; movement in the Mekong Delta, headed by an even more obscure figure, Chao (or Chau) Dara.

I&#039;ve seen it stated that Chau Dara was, in fact, Lon Nol under a pseudonym....

Another almost-forgotten aspect of the Khmer Republic was that the Cham were given quite a prominent role, again via the visible presence of Kosem, El Brahim, and their associates; Nol had himself photographed with Cham community leaders quite often. I assume this was another extension of Lon Nol&#039;s pan-Khmerist fantasies.

I wonder if foreginers, as you say, like Cambodia or Thailand perhaps because of the greater Indic influence on their culture, as opposed to the Chinese influence on Vietnamese society. Westerners seem to have little understanding of Chinese culture in general, and particularly of the Confucian structure underlying it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sihanouk did sponsor Cham nationalism to a certain degree, mainly via the rather shadowy figure of Les Kosem (or Kasem), a Cham officer in the Royal army. Kosem was not only part of the army clique responsible for helping supply the Viet Cong with weapons, but was one of the leaders of a Cham &#8216;liberation front&#8217; which seems to have been  fostered by Sihanouk with the purpose of needling South Vietnam, and indeed everyone else. He was also associated with another &#8216;liberation&#8217; movement in the Mekong Delta, headed by an even more obscure figure, Chao (or Chau) Dara.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen it stated that Chau Dara was, in fact, Lon Nol under a pseudonym&#8230;.</p>
<p>Another almost-forgotten aspect of the Khmer Republic was that the Cham were given quite a prominent role, again via the visible presence of Kosem, El Brahim, and their associates; Nol had himself photographed with Cham community leaders quite often. I assume this was another extension of Lon Nol&#8217;s pan-Khmerist fantasies.</p>
<p>I wonder if foreginers, as you say, like Cambodia or Thailand perhaps because of the greater Indic influence on their culture, as opposed to the Chinese influence on Vietnamese society. Westerners seem to have little understanding of Chinese culture in general, and particularly of the Confucian structure underlying it.</p>
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		<title>By: tong reasathea</title>
		<link>http://padevat.info/2010/01/15/revising-history/comment-page-1/#comment-300</link>
		<dc:creator>tong reasathea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 04:26:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://padevat.info/?p=2007#comment-300</guid>
		<description>LB, 
I don&#039;t know much about local nationalism sponsored by Sihanouk, in fact it made me wonder, was it that Cham nationalism was sponsored? I knew that Khmer Leur were subject to khmerification programs, there the Prince wanted to send Khmer youth to help bring &quot;savages&quot; close to Khmer society. I guess Vietnamese were always some subject to discrimination, unlike Chinese who always enjoyed privileged status. Actually even in Angkorian Cambodia there were community of Chinese merchants living in the capital, and the Khmer farytails, there always Chinese or Malaysian merchant, almost never Khmer. I see foreigners also like nations like Cambodia or Thailand, they seem to have a mysterious aura attached to them, unlike Vietnam or Malaysia which do not carry much attraction for tourists and expats. Is this because of Angkor Wat or there some other points too? I asked my wife and she didn&#039;t know what to answer, I could not explain it good enough too. 

Khmers look down on those people, they are called &quot;monus prey&quot; people of the forest, but &quot;barang&quot; or Chinese of Korean- they are too happy with them. Even Vietnamese, I saw many Khmer tourists coming to Vietnam, for treatment, for pleasure, so globalism even if I can&#039;t stand it, makes me to accept some part of it, at least people become friendlier to Vietnamese, and more and more people do not use &quot;youn&quot; when speaking about Vietnamese, as the word &quot;youn&quot; makes it feel like an object or an animal towards them. 

I feel attracted to sheer poverty of Vietnamese, they are always so poor, even in Canada! And they never can master English too, always an accent.

PINEAPPLE 

I read Tchevengur of Andrei Platonov, have you read it? Do you think in that novel are hell of too many parallels with Khmer communism? I have to practically mark every page for a further reference point. Platonov&#039;s language great too, when I&#039;m done with Russian original I&#039;ll try to get an English translation just to see whether it as good as the source.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LB,<br />
I don&#8217;t know much about local nationalism sponsored by Sihanouk, in fact it made me wonder, was it that Cham nationalism was sponsored? I knew that Khmer Leur were subject to khmerification programs, there the Prince wanted to send Khmer youth to help bring &#8220;savages&#8221; close to Khmer society. I guess Vietnamese were always some subject to discrimination, unlike Chinese who always enjoyed privileged status. Actually even in Angkorian Cambodia there were community of Chinese merchants living in the capital, and the Khmer farytails, there always Chinese or Malaysian merchant, almost never Khmer. I see foreigners also like nations like Cambodia or Thailand, they seem to have a mysterious aura attached to them, unlike Vietnam or Malaysia which do not carry much attraction for tourists and expats. Is this because of Angkor Wat or there some other points too? I asked my wife and she didn&#8217;t know what to answer, I could not explain it good enough too. </p>
<p>Khmers look down on those people, they are called &#8220;monus prey&#8221; people of the forest, but &#8220;barang&#8221; or Chinese of Korean- they are too happy with them. Even Vietnamese, I saw many Khmer tourists coming to Vietnam, for treatment, for pleasure, so globalism even if I can&#8217;t stand it, makes me to accept some part of it, at least people become friendlier to Vietnamese, and more and more people do not use &#8220;youn&#8221; when speaking about Vietnamese, as the word &#8220;youn&#8221; makes it feel like an object or an animal towards them. </p>
<p>I feel attracted to sheer poverty of Vietnamese, they are always so poor, even in Canada! And they never can master English too, always an accent.</p>
<p>PINEAPPLE </p>
<p>I read Tchevengur of Andrei Platonov, have you read it? Do you think in that novel are hell of too many parallels with Khmer communism? I have to practically mark every page for a further reference point. Platonov&#8217;s language great too, when I&#8217;m done with Russian original I&#8217;ll try to get an English translation just to see whether it as good as the source.</p>
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		<title>By: Pineapple</title>
		<link>http://padevat.info/2010/01/15/revising-history/comment-page-1/#comment-298</link>
		<dc:creator>Pineapple</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 07:49:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://padevat.info/?p=2007#comment-298</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll get back to your comments Ib.  I need to get some rest soon, was working last night.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll get back to your comments Ib.  I need to get some rest soon, was working last night.</p>
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		<title>By: Pineapple</title>
		<link>http://padevat.info/2010/01/15/revising-history/comment-page-1/#comment-297</link>
		<dc:creator>Pineapple</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 06:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://padevat.info/?p=2007#comment-297</guid>
		<description>&quot;It should be said, though, that Serge Thion is a noted French ultra-leftist who turned Holocaust-denialist by… ahem… anti-”zionism”, close to La Vieille Taupe and Faurisson, that sort of people.&quot;

I&#039;m glad you&#039;ve found this post interesting, and yes manur, I&#039;m aware of his disgrace.  With this post I&#039;m not validating historical revisionism regarding the attempt to exterminate a people from the face of a continent.   Thanks for bringing this up, and I&#039;ve had this pointed out here previously.  His writings on Southeast Asia, and particularly Khmer Communism, are deeply knowledgeable, not to mention witty.  If it&#039;s felt that there is moral concern over even mentioning his name or his work here, then I&#039;ll take it on the chin.  I wouldn&#039;t say Thion, at least when he grew older, was an ultra-leftist though.  The way he has poured scorn on Maoism, for example, calling it a &quot;pseudo-theory&quot; etc.  Unless what you mean by that is something outside the left end of the liberal democratic spectrum.  And old Marxist-Leninists, say, have their own uses for the term ultra-leftism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It should be said, though, that Serge Thion is a noted French ultra-leftist who turned Holocaust-denialist by… ahem… anti-”zionism”, close to La Vieille Taupe and Faurisson, that sort of people.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad you&#8217;ve found this post interesting, and yes manur, I&#8217;m aware of his disgrace.  With this post I&#8217;m not validating historical revisionism regarding the attempt to exterminate a people from the face of a continent.   Thanks for bringing this up, and I&#8217;ve had this pointed out here previously.  His writings on Southeast Asia, and particularly Khmer Communism, are deeply knowledgeable, not to mention witty.  If it&#8217;s felt that there is moral concern over even mentioning his name or his work here, then I&#8217;ll take it on the chin.  I wouldn&#8217;t say Thion, at least when he grew older, was an ultra-leftist though.  The way he has poured scorn on Maoism, for example, calling it a &#8220;pseudo-theory&#8221; etc.  Unless what you mean by that is something outside the left end of the liberal democratic spectrum.  And old Marxist-Leninists, say, have their own uses for the term ultra-leftism.</p>
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		<title>By: lb</title>
		<link>http://padevat.info/2010/01/15/revising-history/comment-page-1/#comment-296</link>
		<dc:creator>lb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 22:11:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://padevat.info/?p=2007#comment-296</guid>
		<description>Mention earlier of the KPNLF, and of Sutsakhan in the most recent post, reminds me that I found a few interesting images taken by Patrick Chauvel during the time the KPNLF were the West&#039;s &#039;official&#039; proxy of choice in that particular theatre of the Cold War. These &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.flickr.com/photos/13476480@N07/3797967378/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;pictures&lt;/a&gt; if nothing else underline what a relatively shambolic outfit they were compared to the, um, more &#039;unofficial&#039; proxy of choice, led by Khieu Samphan and the other one who wasn&#039;t mentioned so much. 

I&#039;m sure Sutsakhan and Son Sann were probably well-intentioned enough, but they couldn&#039;t even agree amongst themselves on whether to cooperate with Sihanouk or not, let alone be a coherent &#039;third force&#039;. The chaotic, incestuous factionalism of the Khmer Republic had effects long after its demise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mention earlier of the KPNLF, and of Sutsakhan in the most recent post, reminds me that I found a few interesting images taken by Patrick Chauvel during the time the KPNLF were the West&#8217;s &#8216;official&#8217; proxy of choice in that particular theatre of the Cold War. These <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/13476480@N07/3797967378/" rel="nofollow">pictures</a> if nothing else underline what a relatively shambolic outfit they were compared to the, um, more &#8216;unofficial&#8217; proxy of choice, led by Khieu Samphan and the other one who wasn&#8217;t mentioned so much. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure Sutsakhan and Son Sann were probably well-intentioned enough, but they couldn&#8217;t even agree amongst themselves on whether to cooperate with Sihanouk or not, let alone be a coherent &#8216;third force&#8217;. The chaotic, incestuous factionalism of the Khmer Republic had effects long after its demise.</p>
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