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	<title>Comments on: Piglets and sloganeering in Kompong Speu</title>
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		<title>By: yura khmer</title>
		<link>http://padevat.info/2010/02/06/piglets-and-sloganeering-in-kompong-speu/comment-page-1/#comment-1458</link>
		<dc:creator>yura khmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jul 2010 14:01:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Can you posting hun sen picture in khmer rouge uniform during pol pot regim.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can you posting hun sen picture in khmer rouge uniform during pol pot regim.</p>
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		<title>By: Tong Reasathea</title>
		<link>http://padevat.info/2010/02/06/piglets-and-sloganeering-in-kompong-speu/comment-page-1/#comment-411</link>
		<dc:creator>Tong Reasathea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 06:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://padevat.info/?p=2459#comment-411</guid>
		<description>http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Y2U990A4

History of Norodom Chantaraingsy in Khmer, with his picture in yound age. On the page 13 is a picture of Dap Chhuon accepting a gift of the arm from Sihanouk. I haven&#039;t read this book myself yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Y2U990A4" rel="nofollow">http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Y2U990A4</a></p>
<p>History of Norodom Chantaraingsy in Khmer, with his picture in yound age. On the page 13 is a picture of Dap Chhuon accepting a gift of the arm from Sihanouk. I haven&#8217;t read this book myself yet.</p>
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		<title>By: Pineapple</title>
		<link>http://padevat.info/2010/02/06/piglets-and-sloganeering-in-kompong-speu/comment-page-1/#comment-390</link>
		<dc:creator>Pineapple</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 08:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://padevat.info/?p=2459#comment-390</guid>
		<description>Yes, the Issarak connection to the Communists is pretty well entwined.  For their insurgency the Khmer Rouge, like lb has noted above with Chantarangsey&#039;s looking up old Issarak pals for his Brigade, would reactivate old sympathies with the Khmer Vietminh among villagers who had been associated with them during the war; those who either didn&#039;t go to Phnom Penh&#039;s side or leave for Hanoi in the 1950s, instead keeping their heads down and going back to normal village life.  The DK national flag is that of the original Issarak KNLC; the PRK later used the UIF flag, depicting the Angkor temple with five towers, representing those Khmer Vietminh lead by Son Ngoc Minh, who would become the Hanoi-based titular head of the Cambodian Communist movement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, the Issarak connection to the Communists is pretty well entwined.  For their insurgency the Khmer Rouge, like lb has noted above with Chantarangsey&#8217;s looking up old Issarak pals for his Brigade, would reactivate old sympathies with the Khmer Vietminh among villagers who had been associated with them during the war; those who either didn&#8217;t go to Phnom Penh&#8217;s side or leave for Hanoi in the 1950s, instead keeping their heads down and going back to normal village life.  The DK national flag is that of the original Issarak KNLC; the PRK later used the UIF flag, depicting the Angkor temple with five towers, representing those Khmer Vietminh lead by Son Ngoc Minh, who would become the Hanoi-based titular head of the Cambodian Communist movement.</p>
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		<title>By: Tong Reasathea</title>
		<link>http://padevat.info/2010/02/06/piglets-and-sloganeering-in-kompong-speu/comment-page-1/#comment-388</link>
		<dc:creator>Tong Reasathea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 04:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://padevat.info/?p=2459#comment-388</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s somewhere on the internet a Khmer pdf with description of Norodom Chantaraingsey activity, featuring another picture of him in the hat. I have it at home and I will post it if you don&#039;t find it, I couldn&#039;t find it right away too. 

Ta Mok studied Pali canons for eight years, as his biography states. His father married only at 40, having spent 20 years as a monk. I wonder that it might have influenced him the same way as it influenced Pol Pot. Nuon Chea in his interview posted on Khmerization said that he was always a Buddhist. Very interesting connections. The more you study the more you impressed. 

There&#039;s connection between Issaraks and Communists. Many started their way as Issaraks and turned to communism. In relation to posted above Vietnamese had more intelligentsia, they translated Lenin into Vietnamese, as far as I know about Khmer translations- there were none. Maybe it&#039;s the difference in cultures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s somewhere on the internet a Khmer pdf with description of Norodom Chantaraingsey activity, featuring another picture of him in the hat. I have it at home and I will post it if you don&#8217;t find it, I couldn&#8217;t find it right away too. </p>
<p>Ta Mok studied Pali canons for eight years, as his biography states. His father married only at 40, having spent 20 years as a monk. I wonder that it might have influenced him the same way as it influenced Pol Pot. Nuon Chea in his interview posted on Khmerization said that he was always a Buddhist. Very interesting connections. The more you study the more you impressed. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s connection between Issaraks and Communists. Many started their way as Issaraks and turned to communism. In relation to posted above Vietnamese had more intelligentsia, they translated Lenin into Vietnamese, as far as I know about Khmer translations- there were none. Maybe it&#8217;s the difference in cultures.</p>
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		<title>By: Pineapple</title>
		<link>http://padevat.info/2010/02/06/piglets-and-sloganeering-in-kompong-speu/comment-page-1/#comment-386</link>
		<dc:creator>Pineapple</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2010 18:36:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://padevat.info/?p=2459#comment-386</guid>
		<description>Ta Mok is interesting in that this boorish backwater rebel proved to be an almost natural ally of the Pol Potists, with the anti-intellectual, anti-town and poor peasantist tendency they represented.  Not to mention his dislike of the Vietnamese.  I think it was him who, among others, was supportive of the idea to invade the Khmer Krom area of southern Vietnam, and place it back under Cambodian control.  His politics were a little bit &#039;basic&#039;, yes, and I believe it was Mok who proved to be persuasive in the CPK meetings over the direction of their planned economy, with Pol agreeing with him on  the abolishment of money domestically.  He favoured a barter system for the cooperatives, with regions exchanging produce for those things lacking in their own.

However, given his anti-town sentiments, it appears he learnt something in A-Level fashion regarding M-L theory.

&quot;The state is an organism whose purpose is to maintain the power of one class by exercising dictatorship over others in all domains. ...  But the State is also an instrument that creates a privileged social stratum which, as it develops, becomes cut off from the proletariat and from labour.  This has happened, for example, in the Soviet Union ...  and [to some extent] in [North] Korea and in China.  In conformity with Marxist-Leninist principles, it is necessary to ... reduce progressively this defect which is the State until it is extinguished completely, giving place to [a system of] self-management of factories by the  proletariat and of agriculture by the peasants.  The privileged upper stratum will then disappear altogether.

Up to now, the fact we do not use money has greatly reduced private property and thus has promoted the overall trend towards the collective.  If we start using money again, it will bring back sentiments of private property and drive the individual away from the collective.  Money is an instrument which creates privilege and power.  Those who possess it can use it to bribe cadres ... [and] to undermine our system.  If we allow sentiments of private property to develop, little by little people&#039;s thoughts will turn only to ways of amassing private property ...  If we take that route, the in one year, or 10 or 20 years, what will become of our Cambodian society which up to now is so clean?&quot;

Mind you, acting as a DK central government hangman, proved to be quite valuable in massing power within the new state, keeping zonal administration in the family.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ta Mok is interesting in that this boorish backwater rebel proved to be an almost natural ally of the Pol Potists, with the anti-intellectual, anti-town and poor peasantist tendency they represented.  Not to mention his dislike of the Vietnamese.  I think it was him who, among others, was supportive of the idea to invade the Khmer Krom area of southern Vietnam, and place it back under Cambodian control.  His politics were a little bit &#8216;basic&#8217;, yes, and I believe it was Mok who proved to be persuasive in the CPK meetings over the direction of their planned economy, with Pol agreeing with him on  the abolishment of money domestically.  He favoured a barter system for the cooperatives, with regions exchanging produce for those things lacking in their own.</p>
<p>However, given his anti-town sentiments, it appears he learnt something in A-Level fashion regarding M-L theory.</p>
<p>&#8220;The state is an organism whose purpose is to maintain the power of one class by exercising dictatorship over others in all domains. &#8230;  But the State is also an instrument that creates a privileged social stratum which, as it develops, becomes cut off from the proletariat and from labour.  This has happened, for example, in the Soviet Union &#8230;  and [to some extent] in [North] Korea and in China.  In conformity with Marxist-Leninist principles, it is necessary to &#8230; reduce progressively this defect which is the State until it is extinguished completely, giving place to [a system of] self-management of factories by the  proletariat and of agriculture by the peasants.  The privileged upper stratum will then disappear altogether.</p>
<p>Up to now, the fact we do not use money has greatly reduced private property and thus has promoted the overall trend towards the collective.  If we start using money again, it will bring back sentiments of private property and drive the individual away from the collective.  Money is an instrument which creates privilege and power.  Those who possess it can use it to bribe cadres &#8230; [and] to undermine our system.  If we allow sentiments of private property to develop, little by little people&#8217;s thoughts will turn only to ways of amassing private property &#8230;  If we take that route, the in one year, or 10 or 20 years, what will become of our Cambodian society which up to now is so clean?&#8221;</p>
<p>Mind you, acting as a DK central government hangman, proved to be quite valuable in massing power within the new state, keeping zonal administration in the family.</p>
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		<title>By: Pineapple</title>
		<link>http://padevat.info/2010/02/06/piglets-and-sloganeering-in-kompong-speu/comment-page-1/#comment-385</link>
		<dc:creator>Pineapple</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2010 17:57:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://padevat.info/?p=2459#comment-385</guid>
		<description>For the Vietnamese Communists, how they dealt with Cambodia depended on how best to oppose powerful foreign enemies, firstly the French and the feasibility of Marxist-Leninist revolution in the country, and the latter happening independent of their involvement (i.e. leadership) is something they viewed with pessimism.  Despite losing Thai government support by the late 1940s, there was some optimism during the remainder of the Resistance War.  The Vietminh had proved that it was possible to successfully engage the French army on a wide front, using mobile guerilla warfare, and  the Chinese Communist victory further north gave them confidence too in that they believed the regional struggle was reaching a higher phase, with importance given to organising a wide counter-offensive requiring popular support throughout Indochina to finally kick the French out.  The Vietnamese were painfully aware of how the cultivation of a Communist movement in Cambodia was  going to be difficult, not only due to the country being seen in orthodox terms as not yet ripe economically and socially, and also given traditional chauvinism and the resentment towards Vietnamese mandarins brought in by the French to  occupy the lower levels of the colonial administration, associating them with a disliked government.  The Issaraks, although not Communist in the main, were seen as a useful way around this problem, because of their violent opposition to the French.  Cambodia gaining  independence took much of the meaning away from why they were fighting however, and the going over to the other side by the likes of Chuon saw the Vietnamese  seriously thinking about the cultivation of a Cambodian Communist movement, making use of those Issaraks who&#039;d been exposed to socialist ideas and had joined the ICP.  But then the politics of separate parties linked to the ICP would be national in character, and their politics would be defined by those respective nationalisms,  the consequences of which the Vietnamese would reap years later.  Of course the Cambodian Party was formed as the KPRP, designed at first to incorporate elements of all various sections of society, unlike a Bolshevist Communist Party, which focusses on an organised working class membership, which to them, given the Cambodian situation, would be an error given the distinct lack of a working class, apart from a few scattered proles here and there, and again mostly Vietnamese.   The new generation of Khmer Communists and the development of the Pol Pot line would later change that of course, and not just the name of the organisation.  Their pseudo-Communist Party in power would later attempt to create proles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the Vietnamese Communists, how they dealt with Cambodia depended on how best to oppose powerful foreign enemies, firstly the French and the feasibility of Marxist-Leninist revolution in the country, and the latter happening independent of their involvement (i.e. leadership) is something they viewed with pessimism.  Despite losing Thai government support by the late 1940s, there was some optimism during the remainder of the Resistance War.  The Vietminh had proved that it was possible to successfully engage the French army on a wide front, using mobile guerilla warfare, and  the Chinese Communist victory further north gave them confidence too in that they believed the regional struggle was reaching a higher phase, with importance given to organising a wide counter-offensive requiring popular support throughout Indochina to finally kick the French out.  The Vietnamese were painfully aware of how the cultivation of a Communist movement in Cambodia was  going to be difficult, not only due to the country being seen in orthodox terms as not yet ripe economically and socially, and also given traditional chauvinism and the resentment towards Vietnamese mandarins brought in by the French to  occupy the lower levels of the colonial administration, associating them with a disliked government.  The Issaraks, although not Communist in the main, were seen as a useful way around this problem, because of their violent opposition to the French.  Cambodia gaining  independence took much of the meaning away from why they were fighting however, and the going over to the other side by the likes of Chuon saw the Vietnamese  seriously thinking about the cultivation of a Cambodian Communist movement, making use of those Issaraks who&#8217;d been exposed to socialist ideas and had joined the ICP.  But then the politics of separate parties linked to the ICP would be national in character, and their politics would be defined by those respective nationalisms,  the consequences of which the Vietnamese would reap years later.  Of course the Cambodian Party was formed as the KPRP, designed at first to incorporate elements of all various sections of society, unlike a Bolshevist Communist Party, which focusses on an organised working class membership, which to them, given the Cambodian situation, would be an error given the distinct lack of a working class, apart from a few scattered proles here and there, and again mostly Vietnamese.   The new generation of Khmer Communists and the development of the Pol Pot line would later change that of course, and not just the name of the organisation.  Their pseudo-Communist Party in power would later attempt to create proles.</p>
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		<title>By: lb</title>
		<link>http://padevat.info/2010/02/06/piglets-and-sloganeering-in-kompong-speu/comment-page-1/#comment-384</link>
		<dc:creator>lb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2010 14:49:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://padevat.info/?p=2459#comment-384</guid>
		<description>Glad you found it of interest!

...Yes, it does seem that many of the first generation of Issarak leaders were figures belonging almost to the 19th century, with their straggling bands of followers and harshly primitive nationalism. Compared to them the Vietnamese resistance was enormously more sophisticated. Chuuon was a case in point, though he eventually gained enough knowledge of regional geopolitics to declare himself a committed anti-communist, despite once exchanging congratulatory messages with Ho Chi Minh himself. Some of the others such as Achar Yi actually went out of their way to kill ethnic Vietnamese villagers, and all groups would no doubt have been a convenient refuge for deserters and criminals. The ICP would have faced an uphill struggle, in other words.

In this context it isn&#039;t surprising that the Viet Minh tried to court Chantarangsey, who was popular, had some military experience and political awareness, seemed receptive to &#039;progressive ideas&#039; and of course had a claim to the throne. And once Tou Samouth and other monks, or ex-monks, joined the ICP the traditional sources of authority in Cambodia could be used in another way to spread new political concepts, getting around the recruitment issue.

I guess that one of the few figures in DK who really seemed a part of this earlier phase of development was Ta Mok - an effective guerrilla commander who relied on a strong local power base, cultivated a fearsome reputation, and was vocally anti-Vietnamese. By all accounts his understanding of the actual &#039;politics&#039; involved was fairly basic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad you found it of interest!</p>
<p>&#8230;Yes, it does seem that many of the first generation of Issarak leaders were figures belonging almost to the 19th century, with their straggling bands of followers and harshly primitive nationalism. Compared to them the Vietnamese resistance was enormously more sophisticated. Chuuon was a case in point, though he eventually gained enough knowledge of regional geopolitics to declare himself a committed anti-communist, despite once exchanging congratulatory messages with Ho Chi Minh himself. Some of the others such as Achar Yi actually went out of their way to kill ethnic Vietnamese villagers, and all groups would no doubt have been a convenient refuge for deserters and criminals. The ICP would have faced an uphill struggle, in other words.</p>
<p>In this context it isn&#8217;t surprising that the Viet Minh tried to court Chantarangsey, who was popular, had some military experience and political awareness, seemed receptive to &#8216;progressive ideas&#8217; and of course had a claim to the throne. And once Tou Samouth and other monks, or ex-monks, joined the ICP the traditional sources of authority in Cambodia could be used in another way to spread new political concepts, getting around the recruitment issue.</p>
<p>I guess that one of the few figures in DK who really seemed a part of this earlier phase of development was Ta Mok &#8211; an effective guerrilla commander who relied on a strong local power base, cultivated a fearsome reputation, and was vocally anti-Vietnamese. By all accounts his understanding of the actual &#8216;politics&#8217; involved was fairly basic.</p>
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		<title>By: Pineapple</title>
		<link>http://padevat.info/2010/02/06/piglets-and-sloganeering-in-kompong-speu/comment-page-1/#comment-377</link>
		<dc:creator>Pineapple</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 15:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://padevat.info/?p=2459#comment-377</guid>
		<description>Excellent first post lb, let&#039;s have more of this calibre.  Yes, the General was adored by his men, and the Khmer Rouge at a regional Party session did attribute an attack on the Kompong Som oil refinery in 1977 to men belonging to Chantarangsey&#039;s 13th Brigade.  This reminds me,  I&#039;ll have to find my copy of Corfield&#039;s brief history of the Cambodian non-Communist resistance.  It only gives outline of developments, but mentions several groups led by FANK officers who refused to surrender after April 1975.  One interesting group which perhaps deserves some more attention, was called  the &lt;em&gt;Cobra&lt;/em&gt; organisation, who were virtually indistinguishable from the Khmer Rouge apart from snake insignia they wore on their black peasant clothes.  They made daring raids into DK, and were heavily armed.

It&#039;s also interesting that you&#039;ve mentioned Dap Chhuon.  It was the increasing refusal of people such as this in the Issarak movement, to collaborate with the Vietminh, along with a change of government in Thailand, that by 1949 looked to America for large-scale military and economic aid, which saw the Vietnamese give serious thought to cultivating a Cambodian Communist movement for the first time, filling leadership posts with those Issaraks who had joined the ICP.    Coincidently, I&#039;m writing a post on the Comintern-era federation principle and how this was interpreted by the Vietnamese Communists, regarding  Laos and Cambodia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent first post lb, let&#8217;s have more of this calibre.  Yes, the General was adored by his men, and the Khmer Rouge at a regional Party session did attribute an attack on the Kompong Som oil refinery in 1977 to men belonging to Chantarangsey&#8217;s 13th Brigade.  This reminds me,  I&#8217;ll have to find my copy of Corfield&#8217;s brief history of the Cambodian non-Communist resistance.  It only gives outline of developments, but mentions several groups led by FANK officers who refused to surrender after April 1975.  One interesting group which perhaps deserves some more attention, was called  the <em>Cobra</em> organisation, who were virtually indistinguishable from the Khmer Rouge apart from snake insignia they wore on their black peasant clothes.  They made daring raids into DK, and were heavily armed.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also interesting that you&#8217;ve mentioned Dap Chhuon.  It was the increasing refusal of people such as this in the Issarak movement, to collaborate with the Vietminh, along with a change of government in Thailand, that by 1949 looked to America for large-scale military and economic aid, which saw the Vietnamese give serious thought to cultivating a Cambodian Communist movement for the first time, filling leadership posts with those Issaraks who had joined the ICP.    Coincidently, I&#8217;m writing a post on the Comintern-era federation principle and how this was interpreted by the Vietnamese Communists, regarding  Laos and Cambodia.</p>
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